A Capuchin Monkey

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This is lovely. Wonderful job.

I love this , especially the eyes, they really bring out the expression.
On the other matter I think we agree to differ on our thoughts. If you have a look at lesson 2 in the 3 birds course you will see Matt transferring the image using pastel on the back of the image and tracing it onto the paper.

I will have a look at it, and give my thoughts on the matter. By the way Thank you for the comment

Thank you for your post.

I looked at the lesson you were referring too. And after viewing it I am even more convinced that tracing is cheating. Someone who wants to perfect their drawing and painting skills should actively avoid tracing pictures as they are missing out on essential training and practice. Just because matt taught it, as you mentioned to me that doesn’t mean that it’s not cheating. However, if an individual is just looking to have “fun” then by all means trace pictures (maybe it’s a fun practice) but for serious art students or to make genuine oil paintings and drawings that will be presented to people as your own work tracing is a cheap way to go, and these are the things that little children do. I have no respect for art work that is presented to others as a genuine piece but the individual fails to mention that it has been traced because it is deceiving and morally incorrect and it’s like spitting in the face of real artists. Tracing should be for fun, but dont ever present this work to people without mentioning first the fact that you have traced your work, otherwise you are lying to people by giving them a false impression that you created this artwork purely through skill and free handedly.

It also seems, people in this forum stopped commenting on some of my artwork posts because they seem to be “offended” or perhaps find my directness rude. I really don’t care about people that are easily offended are immature, I actually very much admire honest straight people. It’s what I need to improve. When I first met my girlfriend she basically told me my drawings were not good (even though they were) but that is what “propelled” me forward and is why I can draw better now. That being said, my comments are ALWAYS kind, and balanced even if the piece is not the best. I do thank you again for you commenting on my work. I wish some of the other people on this forum had a bit more back bone. This forum also seems really dead I believe people could be a bit more descriptive and passionate in there responses to each other. But not everyone can be like me :v:

Sorry, this is going to be a novel. I think you are being just a little too ‘preachy’ (WHICH IS YOUR RIGHT - YOUR OPINION - YES I AM SCREAMING AT YOU) but you are not wanting others to be honest with you on their comments to you and your piece of art. You asked for it. I’ll probably be chastised by Matt with this one. Or worse, banned from this site. Like if comments were made on “Twitter” that they ‘think’ it someone’s opinion and ban them, sometimes for life instead of a couple of weeks. Then the “WOKE” community could “Cancel Culture” you right into oblivion. Apparently, we are not supposed to have opinions, and definitely not supposed to comment on them. But, here goes …

I could say a whole lot about what you had to say in your posts. But it would take time, single-space, and would take up 3+ pages. I’m sure there is a limit of letters or words you can post on “TheVirtualInstructor”. It seems like you only want ‘positive comments’ about your work (and comments). That is your right, we all want to hear positive comments about our art, too. But we learn a little if we sometimes take others’ advice.

You made some comments about Matt that sounded like you did not think he should be tracing things because you think it is cheating to do so and that it was teaching ‘others to cheat’. That’s a pretty strong use of words - like the ‘spit in your eye’ comment and the entire list of things you thought should or shouldn’t be done by a real [sic] artist. That isn’t what he is doing, it really cannot be said that it is ‘cheating’. He knows there are people here who are just getting into, or back into, art and he is showing one of the many ‘different’ ways to see an object or objects. Do you think that using a ‘graph’ is cheating? Or a lightbox? Or drawing/painting by numbers? The paint by numbers isn’t something you can hide unless you are using an opaque medium. But staying inside the lines can make them look like a stiff painting and some learn how to paint this way. I took classes with a woman who used only paint-by-numbers and she blended the colors, not staying right in the lines. I have never been able to stay inside the lines/box. He also teaches how to use a pencil to determine height and relationship to other items in a picture. You seemed to be intimating that he was not a good instructor for doing this. He is and was formerly an art instructor in schools and privately. I don’t know why Matt left teaching in a school situation; but I am happy, as most of us are, that he did because he wanted to reach more people by setting up a website to do so. I’ve been on other websites for artists and did not learn anything and only got more frustrated. This site (and the instructor(s)) is how I learned to draw and paint as a youngster. I cannot say that I liked all my college professors but I really like the instructor from my private lessons times. I walked out of a class because the instructor was crazier than I ever thought I was (at that time). She just was not making herself clear to me and apparently not to a lot of my classmates in a figure drawing class. If she had wanted us to ‘show motion’ then the model ought to have been the one moving around. Not her around twirling in a circle of students who were sitting so we could actually see the model in a drawing class. I got put into a 2nd-year figure drawing class and I love the professor who had taught me in my first year.

I started drawing when I was only 4-years-old by drawing a wind-up toy penguin, I impressed my Daddy so much that he started trying to find a teacher to take me on as a student. I had to be satisfied with my drawings in nursery school and first grade. My parents made the back stairwell my personal art museum and I could change up my pictures however I wanted and/or replace those that others that my family and friends had seen. It encouraged me and I think it made me a lot bolder and willing to post some of my pictures (here). Does only drawing with a black crayon make me any less of an ‘art student’? I don’t think so, my parents would not say, ‘oh what did you draw’? A flower? Why black’? Because the black crayon was the only one that the paper wrapper had not been ripped off. They’d ask me to explain the pictures and I could tell them what I had drawn, what I thought of the subject, and why I had used a particular color. I would draw with the colored crayons, but they had to be big enough to hold properly and not as a stump and have a paper wrapper on whatever piece was left after being broken into pieces. I still cannot stand having my ‘drawing instruments’ messed with by others. They all have a particular place in my storage box and I want to make sure they are in the right order. I put my colors in the same family and I want them to be there when I go to use them.

We all have different ways of learning and instead of B******* about Matt on this site, then do so on his ‘critique’ page. You can ‘ask’ questions or ‘make’ comments there. That is what it is meant to be used for. I think Matt is 'man enough to take your comments and not let it go to the heart. Also, Matt does read our comments and he looks at the pictures we send in. Sometimes he uses the pictures he gets sent in the Live Lesson or Sketchy Drawing classes (on Wednesday nights @ 8:00 pm) and sometimes he tells us about what we should or should not say to another artist. There is a page about what is expected for us to say in the comments. His comment is to be ‘kind’ and ‘honest’ but not so ‘brutal’ that others would stop commenting on this site. I will just ‘take the chance’ that I won’t be banned from this site, if necessary, by the things I am posting here. My mother and grandmother used to tell me if you/I cannot say something nice, then don’t say anything at all. They’re both deceased, so that isn’t something I hear from them any longer. Although I’d give anything to hear them talk about the things they learned from their own mothers.

Matt will critique them in the Member’s Minute. His comments are suggestions. He makes comments on the things we have done ‘right’ or where he thinks we can improve. But the best way to actually get him to comment on one of your drawings is to ask for a critique. The best way to make those ‘accusations’ of cheating or teaching others to cheat - I think that maybe you need to make your comments directly to him. It was a low blow to make the comment you did about cheating. That is MY opinion. I know this is NOT the ‘right’ way to post my comments to you. Sorry, I just felt it was necessary for me to do so. You are entitled to ignore me or blast me into oblivion. I don’t know how to send a private message. Maybe someone will tell me how to do so.

Here is my comment about your picture: “I love the eyes and agree that it really shows emotion.” But where I see what you have not done is to take the dark area into the rest of his head. The fur on the top of his head. You did so on his belly and the eyes were the first thing saw, then I looked at the middle of the picture and you added the dark there in his belly. However, when I looked back up to his eyes, all I really saw was the lack of a bit of dark in the fur on his head, not the one of a dark area between his eyes. You’ve done such a good job at getting the eyes to show emotion, just take what others say, when you posted a picture and see if you agree that some of the things that others suggest. When you ask for comments and get upset that you aren’t getting any comments on your drawings, don’t take it to heart. We are only doing what you asked and that is for our ‘comments’ or opinion that if you added a little more detail to make it look more 3-dimensional. If you had lightly outlined the fur on his head and then left it undone, then it would look like you meant for this to fade out and look like you had meant to go back and add more detail later.

Maybe your girlfriend would have posted it or sold it ‘as is’. She is/was entitled to voice her ‘opinion’ and maybe you have improved because of her comments. You said they were good, maybe you should have tempered that remark with an “I thought” they were good. She had an opinion and you still wanted her to be your girlfriend? Laughable. :100: :laughing:

Maybe if you do, then it would look finished. At this point, the area around the very detailed eyes looks flat. You can still add darker shades to the area and not lose the details of the eyes.

I might get ‘banned’ from this site - for my comments to you. Maybe I should have done this a different way. I don’t know how to send a personal message (one that others won’t see). Like a BCC in an email. But, I am still learning. I make mistakes. I only know one somebody who was ‘perfect’ in imperfections.

Lenora
‘lilnora’ a/k/a LittleArtistLenora

Are you talking to me? :thinking:

I think you need to take a step back lady, and have a cup of “chamomile tea” and relax out a bit…

(I have to add something here because you went back and totally altered your response)

Whilst I don’t mind reading your constant re-editing of your new “remastered” edition of your life’s story on my post. I don’t appreciate you lying to the community in saying that I have disrespected matt, I think Matt is an excellent instructor. So while you go off on your overly emotionally charged response (which is a sign your very easily emotionally manipulated), try not to cross that moral line between respect and disrespect. Because anyone with half a brain can see you are really putting a lot of effort into trying to somehow defeat me, this is not a war. This is a post about tracing subjects and you have turned into some TV show, very soon people are going to throw chairs at each other. You won’t defeat me with words, I can turn your own posts like a sword against you. And I can be much more entertaining to people in doing so.

Now go back and edit your post some more, so it gives a different message again to “our audience” :couch_and_lamp:

Original post.

This discussion is very simple. I have no respect for artists that trace artwork and present it to others as a genuine piece without mentioning the fact that it has been traced it is dishonest, that’s all. What don’t you understand? Where is the disagreement. If people are in denial that’s their issue.

About copyrights (as you mentioned) well I think that if someone has spent many weeks creating a very “unique” and personal oil painting and someone steals their image and reproduces it for the “love and greed” of money, well that could be considered a betrayel to the artist. However it depends upon the artists subjective point of view. These matters probably vary from situation to situation. I will however say this, that technology has caused man to go against natural laws. And the world has become a place of technological confusion. There is a power in simplicity that man has forgotten. Do your own artwork, that’s it. Create your own subject matter… It’s fun. But you can copy someone else’s pieces just for practice, that’s no problem. Just don’t go around selling it, The medium doesn’t matter (as you mentioned) it’s the subject matter and the image itself that matters.

About positive comments or not, you are wrong because one of the reasons I came to this site is the “critique”. I think you need to relax lady, you went on an unnecessary emotionally charged rant. You mentioned banning, no one’s going to ban you. Relax, if you get banned i will leave this site myself if you can’t express your own opinion. About your “critique” of my art work :face_with_hand_over_mouth: that’s how the monkeys contrast of fur appeared in the image. I can even post the image, the dark fur is the shadow between the finger and fur.

And about me being with my girlfriend, your comment is like a 16 year old girl in the playground talking crap with her friends. The point is, her comments made me better at drawing. And for that I appreciate it.

I’m sure you will go back and re-edit you post.

Sayonara :jp:

If that is the case, maybe it would show that this fur is light. I’ve never seen a capuchin monkey in a zoo or a picture not knowing what they look like was new to me. Maybe you could draw it on black paper. Just a suggestion. I went back and read my post and I don’t think it needs to be edited. At least you were ‘not’ as critical here as you were in a private message,

Lenora

Your quote (just in case you delete it) copy and pasted.

“At least you were ‘not’ as critical here as you were in a private message”.

I never sent you a private message.
You need to work a little bit on your communication skills.

You should write…
At least you were not as critical as if you “were to” send a private message*

And

I never said your post needs to be edited. I said “you edited” and changed the overall message of your post.

Your responses and replies are making little to no sense at all. You are just opening up your mouth and literally saying anything, Talking absolute crap. If you want to respond to an argument you need to make your point and message clear and as simple as possible. I won’t respond to you here anymore.

Regards, Daniel.

Daniel,

The Member Minute 305, starting @ 14:35-ish. Nothing you say is offensive to me. Maybe we can become friends, may not. :wink: :100:

Lenora